Many years ago, when I was first being introduced to readings of the Jesus stories that took things like politics, economics, power, and oppression seriously, one of the key books people in the know talked about was Unveiling Empire: Reading Revelation Then and Now by Wes Howard-Brook and Anthony Gwyther. I read it around the same time that I read Binding the Strong Man (Ched Myers) and Liberating Paul (Neil Elliott). These books, taken together, really reoriented my understanding of the early Jesus movement, although I did not read them alone — I read them while also immersing myself in liberation theology (and social theory) and while seeking to move into relationships of mutually liberating solidarity with people experiencing oppression, violence, and colonization in my own context. Still, I was (and am) very grateful for the ways in which these texts helped me to orient myself and better understand ancient texts that were very important to me at that time.
In recent years, I’ve been fortunate to become friends with Wes. Mostly online, but I was able to visit with him in Seattle when Jess and I were out there in October. He had seen my interview with Neil Elliott and invited me to engage in a conversation with him around his two books, Come Out, My People! God’s Call Out of Empire in the Bible and Beyond (2010) and Empire Baptized: How the Church Embraced what Jesus Rejected 2nd-5th Centuries (2016). I was more than happy to do so! Wes was a gracious and always encouraging dialogue partner. I very much appreciate his writings, his eclectic sources of inspiration, and his willingness to chat about all of these things with me. Thanks, Wes! All the best to you and Sue and those with whom you live and move and have your being — may the death squads never prowl on your streets and may you always find ways to choose love no matter how violent the world becomes.
This is our conversation:
